tipjar silver piece project

The woes of norfed/liberydollar have continued to be on my mind since I read about them getting shut down by the FBI.

If the shutting-down was not politically motivated and related to the fact that they had just received a big shipment of their silver medallions with Ron Paul's picture on them -- if that is just a coincidence, and the shutting-down really did have to do with fraud complaints, and they are going to stay shut down and their defense will fail -- the US Mint news page discussion of liberty dollars states, in part

Under 18 U.S.C. � 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law. According to the NORFED website, "Liberty merchants" are encouraged to accept NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions and offer them as change in sales transactions of merchandise or services. Further, NORFED tells "Liberty associates" that they can earn money by obtaining NORFED "Liberty Dollar" medallions at a discount and then can "spend [them] into circulation." Therefore, NORFED�s "Liberty Dollar" medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States. Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED�s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. � 486.

and that all seems true; there may be a market for silver pieces as such, and the troubles at libertydollar may be an opportunity for others to get into the business of promoting silver pieces without all that confusing noise about "intended to replace US Currency" which liberty dollars aren't, seriously, if you read them very carefully, but it is easy to see how someone could get confused, and easy to see how this confusion created trouble, to the point where the general welfare may be better maintained by shutting them down.

I think they would do well to try to see things from the point of view of a law enforcement agency that has received complaints about people attempting to present liberty dollars as US currency, and put in place some safeguards, such as an internal complaint system and cutting off anyone who has been complained about from receiving any more liberty dollars; or at least waiving the re-minting fees when they change the face value on the pieces.

I got annoyed with NORFED when, after they switched the one-ounce piece from a ten to twenty face, their sales office in my region wanted a fee to take my tens and give me twenties. I think they should have made that exchange a free thing, and included the reminting into their costs of doing business.

Their troubles are an example of "easy to get wrong" causing troubles with their communication. I seriously doubt that they are victims of political maneuvering.

It isn't entirely clear what "use" means in the USmint's claim. I had some liberty silver pieces at one point; I set up a computer for someone who gave me a little stack of them afterwards, which I accepted as a friendly barter exchange.

After that, I successfully "spent" them in restaurants. Such as Burger King. By selling them, out of my pocket, to the store manager, or to other customers in the line, for US dollars, that I used to pay for my meal.

"Anyone want to buy a one ounce silver piece so I can get a hamburger?" I asked, and had no trouble finding takers as needed. I believe that was not in violation of anyone's nuances.

I am several standard deviations away from the norm when it comes to raw chutzpah, though, and once drove across the rocky mountains trading raw oranges for fuel for the car, after I received a big bag of oranges in exchange for sweeping a parking lot. Thank you Deseret Corporation for giving me a memorable traveling experience.

I imagine had I tried to use the piece as US money, or had I tried to use an orange for US money, I would have been in violation. I did not. Others have, with the liberty dollars. I recall reading a news item about a guy who got arrested for being a public disturbance at a sports event when he became unruly when the beer vendor would not accept his silver pieces as payment for beer. That guy was in violation. Was NORFED, too, in encouraging him? If I recall correctly they issued a press release at the time saying they disapproved of being an unruly drunk and that they do not encourage people to use Liberty Dollars anywhere except at merchants who display the symbols indicating that that particular merchant participates in the Liberty Dollar game.

That said, I'd like to announce the "tipjar silver piece" which will be a one-ounce silver piece from the sunshine mint, just like the liberty dollar, with David Nicol's picture on one side -- the driver license picture taken immediately after I achieved my motorcycle endorsement( http://www.tipjar.com/images/dnicol.jpg), or, alternately, a drawing of a banana, on the heads and the original tipjar button image (http://www.tipjar.com/images/tipjar.jpg) on the tails, and on there somewhere the words "tipjar.com since 1996".

The design will be completed and the initial run of 10,000 of them stamped out when the tipjar silver piece fund has enough money in it to pay for the silver and the minting.

The pieces will be sold at the highest price possible once there is enough paid into the TJSP fund associated with price bids to swing the deal; everyone who bid less than the eventual going price will have the option of accepting fewer pieces according to their amount paid into the fund (plus interest) or getting a refund of their money, without any interest.

To buy some of these pieces, please send a letter including

1. how to reach you including postal and e-mail address
2. the price per piece you would like to see the pieces sell for
3. enclose a check for however much US Dollars you would like to spend on a tipjar-branded ounce silver pieces

silver piece project
tipjar LLC
post office box 45163
Kansas City, Missouri 64171-8163

The checks will be deposited immediately, and the bids tracked in the tipjar DebtBazaar system, with an 8% annualized interest rate (compounded continuously at 7.6961%) from the moment they are entered into the database.

The advance paid-in money will be tracked at 8% compounded continually and a price/availability index will be maintained, until it is possible to set a price and have a run of ten thousand pieces minted (and shipped!) at that price. The remaining pieces in the 10,000 will be sold at the set price as orders come in for them.

Say it costs $20 for one piece plus shipping and handling one piece domestic USPS including insurance (for $20.)

That would mean 200,000 would have to be raised to mint and ship all pieces.

If there were 3,000 orders at $50 a piece, and 1000 orders at $15, and 1000 orders at $80, we will set the price at $50, have the pieces made, ship 4000 pieces immediately, and ask all participants if they want pieces at $50 (with interest consideration for holding their money while saving up) or refunds, and sell the remaining pieces at $50 as orders come in for them.

The price will be set based on shipping and handling an individual piece; there will not be a bulk handling discount.

The people who ordered at $15 will have the option of consolidating and purchasing, with interest, pieces at $50 each, or getting refunds of the amount they paid in initially, or a combination. Can't give refunds with interest because that would make the discount for advance orders a security. I think. Haven't had a qualified lawyer review this. (If you are a qualified lawyer and are willing to advise in exchange for an interest-bearing IOU, please use the comment form below. Your first assignment will be properly describing the IOU.)

I don't know what price this process will set; I don't know if anyone will even want to participate. It might take years before the fund has enough in it to order ten thousand silver pieces.

The "debt bazaar" earn-interest-on-your-advance-payment system is covered in part by a pending patent, that this offer is, along with a new tipjar business unit, a demonstration of.

Until the minting order is placed for tipjar series one silver pieces, and the price for them is set, paid-in money for this project will be a "tipjar currency" with the code "TJSP1" which will be redeemable for the silver pieces when they are made. Which means, if you have purchased an interest in the eventual silver pieces, that interest will be associated with your e-mail address, and you may give all or part of it away within the tipjar system.

Interest will continue to accrue on TJSP1, and any unspent TJSP1 when all ten thousand are distributed will be redeemable for TJSP2, etc.

By transferring TJSP1 away, you will lose your right to a refund of paid-in funds if the eventual price is higher than your bid, as otherwise TJSP1 would become a security. Which is not the intention.

if Liberia can do it, why not me?

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